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Transaction

10 / 10 / - 24 / 11 / 2000
Exhibition / Presentation

Transaction
Nomeda und Gediminas Urbonas (LT)

Psychiatrists

Session
Discussion on Films
Filmlist + Synopsis

deutsch

Raimundas Milasiunas
Psychiatrist
Head of Central Mental Hospital in Lithuania

Ruta Baciulyte
Psychotherapist
Central Mental Hospital in Lithuania

Raimundas Alekna
Psychiatrist
Minister of Health of Lithuania

Eugenijus Sarovas
Psychiatrist
Director of Mental Health Center in Vilnius

Dainius Puras
Psychiatrist
Dean of Medicine Faculty at Vilnius University

R.M
Are these men's scenarious? Interesting, why do all of them stare with such frenzied eyes? Dehumanized. if then men's and women's scenarious are dehumanized, then men are probably dehumanized.

E.S.
then the fear of castration is not at all solved woman's if there one, then it does not have a woman's shape.

R.M
she is decastrating herself.

E.S.
That's it.

R.M
She's taking back what she doesn't have.

E.S.
... Then those men are very brave, when there is no threat for them. In essence - homosexual movies, there's no erotic as such.

R.M
those women are trying to take back what they don't have. decastrate themselves, we may say decastrate themselves, a sign of equality may be put between them and men.

E.S.
Yes, they are sexless.

R.M
That's right. In these movies men are sex, whereas women are sexless.

R.B
are men sexless in these movies?

R.M
so here is that stage, when sex as a term doesn't exist yet.

R.B
here men and women are sexless, . sexuality is born within a relationship there is no equivalent relationship, and there is no sexuality.

R.M
... If we talk about the relationship, ... an ox is climbing on a cow there, but not people. It means that animals have a soul and relationship between sexes.

R.B
Don't forget, that sex didn't exist in the Soviet Union.

R.M
No, there was no sex, and if he's a hero, he's not interested in sexual matters.

R.B
While sexualilty is a prerogative of animals.

R.M
World of instincts. Fantastic.

D.P.
maybe it's a part of our history, falsified history. Why are we giggling? There's nothing funny about it, it wasn't like that, we were educated in one way and now we know that it is all different and that the society's identity disorder is evident in a broad sense, a woman used to be assigned a role to maintain present status quo, so that there are no shocks, woman's role is to ensure stability, and man's - development. Which is related to risks everywhere.

R.A.
... Principally, an association came to my mind, that you were judged and called either a good citizen or a sick man depending on what you spoke about, instead of how you behaved, and it had totally nothing to do with another spiritual world, , it used to be important to show not what kind of man you were, but what you spoke about. it is better to show a primary animalistic instinct instead of demonstrating the feelings we have. ...

R.M
a hero does exist here, but he is sexless. woman is the hero that keeps a secret.

E.S.
That coinsides with our period, because dependance is characteristic of a child It's better to live in a relationship of dependance.

R.M
The dependence is that separation. a warlike separation

R.M
What, pornography?

R.B
everything here is communicated by using a speech of Ezopus, in a very indirect way.

D.P.
to compare the woman with a national symbol. I wouldn't say, that she was displeased who can prove, that we had a tough time then. When we experienced pressure, we used to be tortured physically and spiritually that was the golden age of Lithuanians which is bad there is no longer
a machine where we used to be locked and whipped. We were released and given liberty of doing anything. And everyone is angry. Unhappy in the movie it turned out to be good someone else could be accused. There hasappeared a certain black humor with cynism.

R.M
there occur certain issues - why do we keep remembering the Soviet past and talking about how good it used to be then . here it is suitable to use a term of childish impotence, ... But now, there is again a certain childishness, I can control the past, I go to that Soviet period, to thosetimes, when everything used to be restrained, I shift my mind to those times and control it, I watch the movie and giggle. now I can giggle some I'm saying it romantically: "Those were the times". And how good it used to be.

D.P.
It used to be good, because you were chaperoned. Compulsion is often exercised together with guardianship. , she says "he's a kind guy, he's not beating me very strongly",

E.S.
there is a fear of assuming responsibility for one's actions. It is easier to consider one's self unable to be independent, than say "I am managing this world". And this responsibility is called maturity The tendency to favor the past will remain as long as there is no responsibility.

R.B
In the Soviet period a person could not be an individual self. in order to survive in that society, they could not be individual selves. there is an opportunity to be one's own individual self, but it's very difficult, because one needs a strong external self.

R.A.
we can presume, that he feels pain, that he wants to say something. He has to say something, but he's afraid he can be punished.

R.M
He's just clearifying for himself whatever he'll be allowed to do.

D.P.
why does he need all these troubles - he would reason from the perspective of a censor before doing anything. now that I can speak whatever I want when you're asking a person, "and what do you think" - he is silent, because he's trying to figure the right way of saying it,

R.B
How to meet expectations because by saying I want to meet expectations, now I don't know the reason for my award earlier it used to be clear. now it's not.
R.M
To get an award and avoid punishment.

E.S.
It's natural, everyone feels such a pressure. you could even face death sentence.

R.M
In a democratic society we are naturally trying to accept whatever is given by our parents, the environment. But in that situation they were trying to force assume a somewhat parental status.

R.B
... Let's not forget that Lithuania was considered the West of the Soviet Union. ... here they used to give little more liberties than elsewhere people who lived here where torn in between two ideologies: on the one hand they were forced to assume the Russian - Soviet ideology whereas on the other hand they felt in some sense the western people and that made the whole situation very complicated Now we liberated ourselves and we can be a totally free western people, but we are not and there is no ideology nowadays, there is no paternal image which is very hard to endure. There is also a disillusion about the fact that we are not a western country, that we aren't developed good enough.

R.A.
we didn't actually have an ideology, the ideology was necessary as a protection. the reason of our punishment wasn't clear perhaps the feelings were suppressed because of the fact that there were cases of unmotivated deportation, killing, retaliation people would always stress the ideology, without even understanding it. For the sake of survival. While in this situation there's a sheer diffidence, it's just like having a mentally deranged father who is totally unpredictable - he beats you up and you don't know the reason for it. To live in such a country is the same as being a child in a family with a mentally deranged father.

R.M
People in the Soviet society didn't show feelings and put forward that ideology in order to escape this pain. We put these feelings down by ourselves. We didn't have them and there was no need for the repressive machine of the state, we would have invented that ideology by ourselves. So what shall it be now? ..

D.P.
children can learn manipulate even better than adults. Especially if there are some problems within the family, in this case - the state. Lithuanians and Georgians managed to outwit Moscow - how got this money, etc. we used to be proud of it and we keep being proud because we did it with perfection. But for what price? We should compare it with an experienced prisoner, who learns to live a perfect life in jail and he saysthat I feel fine here, I get everything. Then all of a sudden he's let go to the jungle and something goes wrong. He says that it used to be better in jail because here one doesn't have to manipulate, but take up creative activity and be responsible for one's own actions, etc.

R.B
during the transition period there was a certin fact - were had got used to manipulate Moscow as a father, but suddenly Moscow disappeared

R.B
Won't it be so that a man, experiencing a functional condition of ego, more like a father and in fact structurally - that is a deeper level, is in
a state of a child ego, while a moman is the one who cares, this could already be called that second layer. Being a weak person, unaware of his feelings he performs the role of father, who takes responsibility and thenthose relations can be very complicated and difficult. And so then a man can no longer exist separately from a woman as much as a woman - without aman.

E.S.
a man thinks about matters. Matters in a simbolic sense. "I have to take care of some matters". Such a shift to a heterosexual relation is impossible, as long as man lives through an anal phase. That physical senses are much more important than the spiritual sense, which isexperienced by a mature person. He even finds it difficult to receive the pleasure from the outside, from that woman. He finds it easier to manage that pleaseure on his own, just like taking care of business.

R.M
But a man looks at the sky anyway. He doesn't even think about matters.

R.B
A woman was trying to start a relationship with that man.

E.S.
There is no natural passion, drawing of man towards woman. What is sex anyway? There should be an excitement, there should be a desire.

D.P.
Lithuanians - a very passionate nation, almost Northern Italians. I don't know to what extent I'm correct.

E.S.
And this is the ideologization. A person is observing but unable to find an equivalent for whatever he sees and this is a start of the splitting inside him. I am such, there are different signs there, where does the truth comefrom - I don't know. And I must constantly seek an object of attaching oneself - either one's feelings or whatever I get from the screen. .

E.S.
a question emerges, do I must look at it, do I must look at whatever I want? If we orient towards an independent person, then he will choose whatever he feels. But in those times people could not choose it. They were immature..

R.M
In fact, the choice here is important. Essencially we were foreced to look at this even in those times, not something different. We could not switch a channel.

D.P.
Isn't it a reverse side, I'll talk like a stagnator, while presently we can't choose. Because the mass media adapts to the taste the society needs. ..

R.M
. because I wonder whether this ideology was created by us earlier. And now there is a threat that we can create another ideology today. it' better not to have feelings, because there is a threat of pain when you encounter specific problems. And the ideology is better because it doesn't have feelings, and there is the same wish to get back to the past, rule it and manage it. And if I, in my imagination have managed it somehow, then it seems to be positive .

R.B
Hardly. We don't know how to choose. Again, it has to be a powerful force that will create this ideology and put it to use.

R.M
Yes, if there appears someone who manages to tell, look at me, I'll give you something special, but I don't think that it will be a state, it will be one of us.

R.B
I think that the most important problem is that of authenticity, if we dare look at ourselves, identify us, discover us, only then can we be able and know how to choose. And only then there can be a discussion about a true democracy. But now there is a real threat of the new ideology.

D.P.
we had enough of suffering from ideologies, so much that I'm sick of all ideologies, that I don't give a damn about such words as the state, citizen, and that is perfectly served by whatever we watch on TV but that is also an ideology, that everything to me is "not a big deal" that I'm not a citizen of this state

E.S.
there's got to be something healthy in the society; the society can't always be sick, depressed and having no solution..

R.M
A child himself takes certain decisions, but everything depends on his further actions.

R.M
you see maybe in those days there were too much of these serious ones, so that we are now looking at it as to somewhat strange and unacceptable, and that's why there is a wish for irony, sarcasm that may be unhealthy or defective

R.B
I think that such a phenomenon as a deficit generated most of the present phenomena. . In the Soviet period a pair of shoes used to be a deficit while presently new stores keep opening, as if people's appetite for shoescan't be satisfied. I guess the same applies to entertainment shows. There used to be no entertainment, no show business, so people can't be satiated with whatever they didn't have formerly if we talk about the position of an artist, who's probably preaching some important values (important at least to himself), then the posItion exists but currently it would be the way of confrontation, while the confrontation is necessary in order to preserve one's own values, not to make damage to them. But all the same it's a connection, relationship with the society where I am.

E.S.
As to the confrontation - this is natural, it is natural and inevitable when there is competition. It just has to be so. I can discover my self only through comparison with others. This is a social existence. It is humane to socialize.

E.S.
if a child experiences a very stressful situation and there was no time for the reaction towards feelings, he was more reactive towards actions, when he used to be beaten up, when there was much tension, all that helpscalm down that child, is a self-analysis when he's an adult. So that he is unloading every single experience of his. He gradually reacts to it and depending on the amount of the load, he will take as much time as he needs to fully unload his experiences. Turn the distress into reasoning. When you talk about a search for connection, then you are from the same space where all of are. We've been tortured and we must analyze it through associations, through going back to history. So through returning back, little by little.

R.M
There's a feeling inside telling it's a high time to stop.

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