Mel Chin Interview (2000)

authors: Fareed Armaly, Ute Meta Bauer 

Q: The two major projects that involved intense collaboration are Revival Field (1990-1993) and "In the Name of the Place," the GALA Committee project. Let's begin with a discussion of Revival Field, which is important to see as a working methodological shift, linked to your first museum exhibition.

MC: Revival Field became an important research project as well as a sculpture. The revived ecological system that is created from sculpting away toxins from millions of tons of polluted earth - that is the "aesthetic product." Something that has potential for death or injury because of chemical and industrial practices is brought back to life using something that is found naturally - that is the sculpture. ts development has to be traced back to a decision I made after my first museum exhibition in 1989 at the Hirschorn Museum in Washington DC.

I made there an extensive work called "The Operation of the Sun Through the Cultof the Hand," a study of alchemy from Greek and Chinese sources linking everything from Joseph Needham's Science and Civilization in China to texts from ancient Alexandria. I was looking beyond Duchamp to explore the linking of material, form and linguistics. I was also trying to expose a relationship between Greek and Chinese thought, and the process by which transmission of ideas occurs. It was a fundamental work for me, partly as a reinvestigation of the term alchemy described as an artistic process, but more as a way of mining and transforming information. A major factor was that all these were objects made by hand.

I remember being in an elevator questioning myself, asking "What do you love more than anything else Mel?" and a voice said "I love to make things with my hands," with a mind of course to continue to craft these kinds of unusual objects. And then another voice said "OK- Stop!!" So I listened, I just stopped. After spending all this energy on my first museum exhibition, I really quit making artwork. I felt it was part of the alchemical process that the exhibition had investigated: when the fire has just started, you have to initiate something else - a transmutative process.  

I did all kinds of jobs at the time - carpentry, art handling or whatever - it didn't matter. I partly felt I had to do it that way because the support wasn't there. It made more free time available for research though. I didn't make work but would just to go to libraries. I stumbled upon one article that struck me, written by Terence McKenna, a famous Psilocybe expert, in the Whole Earth Review in the fall of 1989. He described using the plant Datura as a method of cleaning heavy metals from the earth. I was struck by the poetic aspects of this possibility and I started studying Datura and its poperties, but I found there was no case for it. I became dedicated to finding a scientist who really knew about this subject.

This turned out to be Dr. Rufus Chaney, a research scientist from the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), whose passion was these specific plants that can remove toxins from the soil. Interestingly, he had to put his research aside due to the conservative political agenda during the 1980s. I mentioned to him McKenna's idea of cleaning up metals with Datura and he said "that plant will get you high but it won't pick up any heavy metals, but if you want to pick up heavy metals I've got the plants." He suggested reading material for me to better understand the technical language and background of what are termed "hyperaccumulator" plants which can pull metals out of the soil into their stems and leaves. Therefore this idea of cleansing the soil using plants seemed more and more possible to me. Chaney had explained that for the project to be scientific, a replicated field test needed to be done at a randomly selected site with toxic contamination somewhere in the world. The plants have to prove that they can pull up the metals. So I began to restructure my concept around these plants, and to create a revival field that would be able to provide data for the three years required for a field test. I suggested to Dr. Chaney that since the USDA, the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) and the other branches of government that are assigned to protect the environment are not going to do the testing, perhaps we can reinvent this piece as a shared field - an art project that would meet the needs of a scientific experiment.  

Revival Field is a project that clearly involves collaboration although that word was not available in the scientific field when we began - we had to call it cooperation. Dr. Chaney was not officially able to work with me on a collective basis because he could not receive money and he could not give me money. I would be responsible for finding funding and a site, which lead to a whole series of operations. It's easy enough to find a contaminated site, but it took months of negotiations with lawyers, waste management officials, the polluters themselves and city governments. I was on the phone everyday for about a year talking to the EPA, and a lot of routes ended with an absolute '"no." You can tell people you may have a solution for cleaning up their soil and they will tell you to your face that you are opening a can of worms. Negotiating: that was my artwork for many years.  

Q: So Revival Field was not about finding the universal 'green' cure. In fact, you drew upon ecology as a first experiment towards shaping your notion of new interrelated fields in art practice-- in the tradition of alchemy, mixing the fields of science and art.  

MC: Well, Revival Field was not just a technical activity to grow plants, or an idea to save the earth or a clean-up process for everything. We understand a plant as a living organism held by primary forces--sun, water, soil--in an easy three-part relationship. But in the real world there are secondary, tertiary and quaternary relationships that make up a complex life that is always at the edge of chaos, at least that's the way it is always described. And in that definition of the ecology of relationships, life cannot be a two-dimensional mandala, it has to be extended into a shape that keeps changing, spinning, moving, stopping, moving backwards, and bottlenecking in time because of many blocks. An idea floating through this continuum is constantly affected by changes in the political structure and economic structures, and it exists in a post-Newtonian space which is curving and moving around. These attitudes are all part of what it takes to ha ve an idea exist in the world.  

There is also a generational aspect to time, and importantly, a generational transfer of ideas. It has been ten years since Revival Field was first planned. Within the art world perhaps there is an understanding of the formal structure of an experiment that was done. There has also been progress in the field of green remediation (URL), and I am so excited about that. Some day there may be a landscape that had once been a dangerous place to live, or could not be farmed because of its contamination, which has been cleaned and made usable by plants. In that case, who cares whether it is art or science? It is something that has occurred in the world which makes it more than it was. And I feel that the so-called "sculpture" will be completed at that time.  

Q: This aspect of transmission and transformation of information and ideas, and a time related to generational transfer is clear in your collaborative project, the GALA Committee's "In the Name of the Place." This was the first project particularly linking to your work in the field of education, so that now you register a revival of interest in art, by getting your participants to work in the 'reality' of mainstream TV media. What were your parameters, and how did it come about?  

MC: The Melrose Place project "In the Name of the Place," was the first project I connected with my teaching - which was at that time as a scholar in residence at the University of California (Cal Arts), and the University of Georgia. I took an art project that was offered to me and turned it into a collective project with my students. There is nothing better than getting out of school to experience the real world with all its rejections and failures. Working together and trying to make something happen, you learn about collaboration and that it does not mean sacrificing some individual impulses towards producing art, but challenging the creative capacity to adjust and deal with other thoughts that may be circulating. This experience belongs to the practice necessary to begin creating new ideas in this world.  

GALA Committee conditions were not just specific to the TV show Melrose Place. The project was initiated in connection with the Los Angeles Museum of Contemporary Art and was obviously related to the art world and its attendant media. The participants saw art institutions not as fixed, but in constant flux, depending on the curators or the directorship at the time, or even the press. If an editor of an art magazine prefers a certain branch of art, then that is what will be reported. There are linear aspects to the world of museum collection in terms of trends and friends. You cannot use that as a gauge to know whether you are successful or accepted as part of the so-called art world.  

The project was more directly related to the mainstream media, which can corrupt any kind of 'attitude' and turn it against itself to sell something. In terms of the project's educational role, it became apparent that one must be critical and rebel against mainstream ideas because many times the media´steals the tools it takes to reevaluate oneself. And, if you want to work with someone else, be it an artist or television producer, it is the wrong idea to have your agenda set and just do your thing. You have to develop agreement and empathy while still putting forth your maximum effort to get your ideas expressed.  

Television media is for now (this will change) a site of profound power that allows for the generational transfer of ideas. Today as I walked through the streets of Stuttgart I heard 'Bye Bye American Pie' by Don McLean via Madonna on MTV doing her new version of a song that was played when I was leaving High School. Thirty years - a generation has passed - and why is that song again here? So what happens when we think of ideas not as having the typical three month life-span in a gallery, but as having a life span within commercial TV, re-running until you finally 'get it'.  

Q: Revival Field manifested as your first work after you made a decisive stop on the doorstep to a museum career as you said, working with your hands. Its title really implies as well a revival of your interests in art practice, through finding a more suitable environment for your different interests to be cultivated in one 'field'. Ecology is clearly present at many levels there, from the direct relation to the earth, to your own revival of a belief in the transmutative process of art, in some sense, updating the notion of alchemy to the information/communication era. This continues into "In the Name of the Place," your first teaching-based collective project, where the 'transmission and transformation of information' is certainly embedded. Early in the project's life you produced a drawing showing the GALA Committee as a complex ecology - why?  

MC: In the case of Revival Field, the work of hundreds of scientists is involved, but in the case of the GALA Committee, what about the millions of fans who start to understand that their favorite show contains some things they never knew? Things which are related to the characters and the plot, but also to other issues. This is a concept of an ecology of relationships where elements are constantly affected by other elements, sending them moving and spiraling in different directions. So early in the project, I drew a plan of the GALA Committee project as an ecology, charting the conversion of TV props that viewers see, into art objects later seen by another audience at a museum exhibition, then into a kind of TV souvenir/artifact being sold at a Sotheby's auction, with the proceeds donated to a charity furthering women's college education (a selection that reflected the viewer demographic of Melrose Place) . So although I don't know the individual who is being educated by our resulting scholarship, she has the capacity to also feed back into that ecology. So the ecology drawing from the beginning indicated the importance of understanding a whole description of the project's life.  

Q: It also associates 'information, education, entertainment', the original mandate associated to television media, with a sense of community responsibility. With commercial television, the acquisition of money through selling advertising time is linked to 'attracting viewer numbers', via a circulation of certain beliefs and values, where each adjusts to the other for the optimum acquisition of money. How did GALA see the work-related conditions and exchange?  

MC: The GALA Committee didn't accept money from the television's extraordinary amount of wealth. Being paid for services means having to perform according to certain rules. By providing the works for free, we could meet the deadlines and provide the work, but remain able to say 'no' to something asked for that we hadn't agreed to produce. It was also a strategy to encourage more of a conversation about the nature and limits of this cooperation or collaboration - what we really wanted to create out of this, what we were not willing to give up in the creative medium, and what it would take. We had to sacrifice something, so in this case, it came down to the money. We saw the producers as collaborators who gave us the script in advance to read, and we'd find ideas there. One example we produced is the set prop "Food for Thought." In the script, one character brings in Chinese food take-out bags and cartons to share with another. We thought that this would be an excellent site for an alternative logo or graphic image from Chinese script. In Chinese restaurants there are red good luck symbols on the walls which say 'prosperity' and 'double happiness,' meaning that if you eat there you get good fortune. We felt that this scene with the Chinese food delivery could offer 'food for thought'. Our research led to statements by the official press in Beijing concerning the Tiananmen Square students. The statements used a word to describe the activities of the students which meant they were not a pro-democracy movement but were just causing trouble to an extreme degree. Now if you asked the students they would say they were demonstrating for human rights and democratic potential. By putting these two sides together on the take-out bags and cartons, we created an iconic kind of battle, not 'double happiness' and 'double prosperity' but 'more trouble' and 'human rights' in opposition.  

The agent that carries an idea may be a television action, or an object of art or a laboratory result. The key is to bring together all the parts and participants to make a project happen. So it is not just a subversive activity to place an idea but it is also establishing the kinds of relationships and the ecology that need to exist for the idea to continue. People are always asking me and other GALA Committee members, how successful was the Melrose project, did it work? Our response largely is that we are not done yet, it is not over yet; we probably won't know the answer to that question for another twenty or thirty years.  

Q: Surely unpredictable is the fact that both collaborative projects now link through Künstlerhaus Stuttgart. Revival Field is being discussed to occur in association with Hohenheim University, with a shift to the more powerful 'superaccumulator' plants. And since its opening last year, the haus.0 program has been the beneficiary of the collector group TwoDo, of the GALA Committee-designed bar from Melrose Place. We went on to produce a character development media workshop with German TV scriptwriter Rainer Kirberg, developing a German take on the American Soap, entitled Melrose Plays, planned to be produced with the bar as set.  

MC: That's something I did not anticipate of course, nor did anyone in GALA, but when I told the other members, they were totally encouraged. It is great when I come and see the bar here, it is as if it has been given another life, furthering the ecology. It is part of a process of reintegration and generational transfer. The same is true for Revival Field occuring here - the experiment they want to conduct uses superaccumulators, which have a much greater capacity for metal take-up than the hyperaccumulators we first tested ten years ago, so a different degree of success is implied. This project is extremely important; it will determine how the plants can work in a real field. This is all part of the continuing project.  

Q: Your latest collaborative venture in progress is in Detroit. Overall, this development of your ventures has demarcated 'land,' mainstream media,' and now 'urban.' Each is specifically described by an ecology with complex limits of finances, rules, and and a specific community of interests: land is linked to soil pollutants by industry, with a scientific community tests results in mind; the TV mainstream as educational/intellectual 'pollutant' (or not), with art students/TV fans having 'minds', and the urban sphere - destruction of inner city by economic policies, with the neighborhood revitalised through a model of self-sustained collective, represented by the basic investment model of the private, individual homeowner and freestanding house. What is the Detroit project?  

MC: In Detroit I'm working on "S.P.O.R.E.", Sustainable Production Organizing in Regard to the Environment. It refers to sustainable economic projects that re-utilize houses, places, ground, trash or other materials to create economically sustainable relationships in the inner city of Detroit. The "Devil's Night" fires that occurred in the 1980s have left damaged houses in inner-city Detroit. In each case an individual house is transformed into a self-sustainable ecology. One project, called S.P.A.W.N., will structurally re-engineer a house damaged by fire from the inside. A pivot will be inserted into one corner, so that the entire house can swing away from its foundation. While open, it will reveal worm-growing bins in the basement. The worms will be used as compost for fields, and the worm castings and the worms themselveswill be sold for speciality gardening and for sport fishing in the Great Lakes. These different projects are all related in some respect to this notion that the artist, or the mythical status of the artist, may sometimes be the biggest hang-up. A challenge with these collaborative projects is to avoid claiming them as your own. In this case, it is better to be a 'submerging' not an 'emerging' artist so that the ideas you really care about can survive as they are assumed and owned by others. In the process of art and ideas, there are periods of profound stasis and then there are explosive reconfigurations of ideas and questions that occur; paradigm shifts in the way of thinking. I want to be part of that - I want to live in that period of reconfiguration, and if I cannot live in it, then I want to work to get that period to happen. So that is why I think about art this way, because it sets up the conditions for the philosophical conversation that will occur in the future.